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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 5, 2010 7:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: your goto GD song (Hey, prof, does this work for the blue-book exam?)

Ah well. You're preachin' to the choir here. I'm not a scientist, but I've read about it :-)

Not saying Micah hasn't. But I do have relatives who say things like "we don't know that Darwin was right." At which point, where do you begin? By asking them to define what they think is meant by "Darwin" and "right"? They can't really do that, because there's another unstated emotional component involved; it's not really about science or Darwin but about deeply held personal beliefs that can't get separated out of the whole discussion. So you can never define terms, because there's a whole iceberg under the surface there.

I'd never question beliefs; I just don't see a need to connect the beliefs to whether or not "Darwin" (whatever is meant by that) was "right" (whatever is meant by that). But like you said, it gets conflated. Which is not a critique of my relatives or micah or whoever. It's just how I see things.

One good thing about snakes, I guess, is that they don't argue with you! At least not verbally :-)









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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Dec 6, 2010 6:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: your goto GD song (Hey, prof, does this work for the blue-book exam?)

Unfortunately though, this type of fundamental issue spills over into real life, affecting important problems we face as a nation and and a global tribe. Not to throw fuel on the fire, but things like "global climate change" and which textbooks to use in schools -count me in the science camp. Difficult for facts and logic to win out over all the misinformation out there.

Love this type of discussion... group hug to all.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 6, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: your goto GD song (Hey, prof, does this work for the blue-book exam?)

Yup; the fundamental issue is to separate science as a process, which really is no different from mathematics, or physics, etc., from "scientists", much less "what to do with the information?".

Then, there's the correlation, which does upset many: scientists in general are agnostic/atheistic/humanists, and folks conclude this is because of "science" but it ain't necessarily so.

The crap I have to hear from folks about "science sez this and science sez that" is just absurd. The findings (body of knowledge portion of science) are one thing, and the process (science as a way of knowing) is another, BUT what WE do with it all, is yet again another beast altogether.

Glad you enjoyed it down here in the depths of the big board!

PS: the fact is that much of this conflation can be traced, in part, to the neocons that like to mix "family values" with politics, etc., etc., etc. Liberals do it as well, but science works best when these boundaries are well noted. We as a society could "decide" that we will do X, Y or Z, and thus have dire consequences for this or that aspect of the environment...the job of scientists is simply to make clear what the alternatives MAY be. Science, in and of itself, is "value free" (though as Kuhn pts out, scientists are not, of course, and there are lots of social influences on scientists, etc.).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 6, 2010 5:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: your goto GD song (Hey, prof, does this work for the blue-book exam?)

Now I think I want more than a hug from you.

JK; seriously, that describes it quite well.

Science is just a methodology. And the theories developed by it supported to varying degrees. You can't really pick and choose and say "I think I'll keep the second law of thermodynamics cause I like that idea, BUT I am not putting natural selection in my cart!"

It is just unreal that a "thinking" individual can function in this fashion, and often I think they are not...really...thinking, nor functional. Har, har...argh.